FOLLOW UP: Question about FG - How does this look?

[asnider]

I'm planning to do a very simple red ale, partly just because I want something simple and partly because it's an excuse to see the difference that two different yeast strains make on an otherwise identical recipe (doing a 5-gallon kit split between two LBKs).

I'd love feedback from the Borg. I'm using a Muntons HME as a base, but planning to use amber DME instead of corn sugar. Will this be too much malt if I don't add additional hops, or will it likely turn out OK?

Also, does anyone know how to enter Muntons Red Ale HME into Qbrew? I couldn't find it listed in the database, so I used the Old Ale since it seems most similar. One thing to note: Muntons says the OG for both the Old Ale and the Red Ale should be 1.060 to 1.064. I'm getting a much lower number despite my batch size being smaller than the normal 5 gallons and using DME instead of straight sugar. Any idea what's going on there?

Modified Muntons Red Ale
------------------------
Brewer: Adam Snider
Style: Irish Red Ale
Batch: 4.26 galExtract

Characteristics
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Recipe Gravity: 1.051 OG
Recipe Bitterness: 25 IBU
Recipe Color: 12° SRM
Estimated FG: 1.013
Alcohol by Volume: 4.9%
Alcohol by Weight: 3.9%

Ingredients
-----------
Amber DME 2.20 lb, Extract, Extract
Muntons Premium HME - Old Ale 3.30 lb, Extract, Extract

Muntons Premium HME - Old Ale 1.00 oz, Pellet, 5 minutes

Coopers Ale Yeast 1.00 unit, Yeast, Temperature Range: 68°-76° F 2.0 GRAMS
Muntons Standard 1.00 unit, Yeast, Temperature Range: 64°-68° F 6 GRAMS

Notes
-----
Recipe Notes:


Batch Notes:
Splitting between two LBKs, using Muntons yeast in one and Coopers yeast in the other.

[BlackDuck]

Wish I could help but I'm not familiar with Muntons HME. You asked about this being too much malt and not enough hops. By the look of the numbers (IBU, OG, etc.) it looks like it is in line.

[RickBeer]

I suggest you read the can more closely. I believe their OG would be based on the number of imperial pints it says it makes, usually without the addition of sugar. 12 imperial pints is 1.8 US Gallons. Play with that in QBrew, without any additions, and you get 1.066 OG.

I think your plan of adding DME is a good one. I'd brew two 2.5 gallon batches, not 2.3 gallon.

[asnider]

I suggest you read the can more closely. I believe their OG would be based on the number of imperial pints it says it makes, usually without the addition of sugar. 12 imperial pints is 1.8 US Gallons. Play with that in QBrew, without any additions, and you get 1.066 OG.

I think your plan of adding DME is a good one. I'd brew two 2.5 gallon batches, not 2.3 gallon.

Thanks, Rick. Since you took the time to answer me on both forums I posted this question, I'll reply on both so that anyone following along on only one site can still see my answer and hopefully learn from my mistakes and your advice.

The can says is makes 66 bottles (23 litres or 6 gallons) and the instructions call for the addition of 1kg (2.2 lbs) of corn sugar. However, I read the instructions more closely and they say the OG should actually be between 1.040 and 1.044. It looks like Muntons' website (where I got the 1.060 to 1.064 range) has inaccurate information. Running it as a 5-gallon batch gives me an OG of 1.044 in Qbrew (using the DME rather than corn sugar).

I'll take your advise and make two 2.5-gallon batches. That was my original plan, but for some reason I changed my mind and did it as two smaller batches. I'm not sure what I was thinking doing them smaller than 2.5-gallons each. Thanks for the help!

[RickBeer]

Glad to help.

The Munton's site references the OG if you make 1.8 gallons (12 imperial pints) with the can only. The directions, as you note, have you adding sugar/DME/LME and making 6 gallons (as I recall from my Munton's Nut Brown batch). Making 5 gallons with 2.2 lbs of DME (or 3 pounds of LME) is the best option.

Make sure you know where the 2.5 gallon mark is on your LBKs (above the "Q" in Quart), and make the full 2.5 gallons. I've rarely had overflows, just put them on a cookie sheet or in a cooler. I regularly get 600 ounces of beer after leaving the trub behind, sometimes as much as 608 ounces (4.75 gallons) (I keep them propped up in front and cold crash).

Munton's Old Ale.JPG (29.71 KiB) Viewed 1060 times

[asnider]

Glad to help.

The Munton's site references the OG if you make 1.8 gallons (12 imperial pints) with the can only. The directions, as you note, have you adding sugar/DME/LME and making 6 gallons (as I recall from my Munton's Nut Brown batch). Making 5 gallons with 2.2 lbs of DME (or 3 pounds of LME) is the best option.

Make sure you know where the 2.5 gallon mark is on your LBKs (above the "Q" in Quart), and make the full 2.5 gallons. I've rarely had overflows, just put them on a cookie sheet or in a cooler. I regularly get 600 ounces of beer after leaving the trub behind, sometimes as much as 608 ounces (4.75 gallons) (I keep them propped up in front and cold crash).

Yeah, it's pretty weird that some of their HME are for 1.8 gallons and some are for 6 gallons. Glad to have figured it out, with a bit of help from you.

[RickBeer]

Yeah, it's pretty weird that some of their HME are for 1.8 gallons and some are for 6 gallons. Glad to have figured it out, with a bit of help from you.

I think it's just a labeling difference. If you make the can, as is, you make 1.8 gallons. If you add sugar/LME/DME you can make 5-6 gallons. Perhaps the older cans said 1.8 and then they realized that people would buy more cans if the cans made more beer. Dunno.

[mashani]

I am not familiar with that particular HME, but some of their cans like the "Gold" line and the one above it are true non-adjunct 2.5-3 gallon per 3.3# can HMEs - as in they are properly hopped and designed to make that much for real per 3.3# can. Their Woodforde kits are also like this. Those kits all come as 2 3.3# cans in a box.

[RickBeer]

It appears to be part of their "Premium Canada Range". http://www.muntonshomebrew.com/category ... ada-range/

One can per, and designed to add sugar. Prior to this I found it archived on their site from 2012, but then found this reference.

http://www.muntonshomebrew.com/wp-conte ... remium.pdf

[asnider]

Coming back to this one with a question. Brewed this two weeks ago. Took a gravity sample from each LBK today. The one done with Coopers yeast is sitting at 1.018. The Muntons yeast is sitting at 1.016. Expected FG was 1.011, so neither batch is quite there yet.

Now, I tend to let all of my beer ferment for 21 days, even though primary fermentation is generally done well before that time.

Will these beers continue to attenuate down if I leave them another week? I assume, at this point, the yeast is done working and the only benefit of another week is that things will "settle down," more of the yeast will drop out of suspension, etc.

My question, I guess, is why is the FG of these beers higher than expected and will it drop down a bit more over the next week?

Since the OG was 0.004 higher than QBrew predicted, I suspect the FG will be as well, but that would still place my FG at 1.015 (so the Muntons is almost there, but the Coopers still has a way to go).

[mashani]

It does not seem right to me that the standard Muntons yeast attenuated more then the coopers yeast. Muntons Gold yeast would do so perhaps, but not the standard without sugar added in normal circumstances. Unless the current standard Muntons is a different yeast then I used in the past.

Both yeasts are high floc, and at 2 weeks they may have floc'd out totally especially if you brewed at the cooler end of their temperature range. You might get a few points more if you swirl the fermenters around a bit to kick the yeast back into suspension. Or not. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've got a couple of packs of liquid British yeast that's up next for a Maris Otter ESB and it's a strain that I *know* I am going to have to swirl every 3-4 days to keep going for a couple of weeks.

One other thing perhaps - if the canned extract was a bit on the older side it may have had some maillard reaction in the can. That would darken the extract a bit, changes the structures of some of the sugars, and may make them less fermentable to beer yeast strains. If so it could very well just be "done" as it's going to get. Where say if you started wit some fresh bulk extract and used the same yeast it would ferment out more like you would expect.

[asnider]

Thanks for the info, mashani.

The DME was definitely fresh. The HME was before it's expiration date, but may have been a bit older.

I did have the yeast toward the lower end of the range for both, as well (with some fluctuations), so perhaps they're both done flocculation. Maybe I'll give them a swirl and see if it helps. If not, I guess it's time to bottle.