Omega Hornindal Kviek

[Beer-lord]

I wonder if the fact that there are so very many strains of this Kveik yeast, there certainly could be many that certainly do give off the Belgian or Saison and the yeast companies are pushing mostly the ones that are not of that variety.
And, instead of offering 27 strains, I guess they just do their own blending to suite the American tastes for everything IPA and juicy.

But you do speak fluid French!

[mashani]

I wonder if the fact that there are so very many strains of this Kveik yeast, there certainly could be many that certainly do give off the Belgian or Saison and the yeast companies are pushing mostly the ones that are not of that variety.
And, instead of offering 27 strains, I guess they just do their own blending to suite the American tastes for everything IPA and juicy.

As far as I know they aren't "blending" they are isolating single strains from the samples they get usually the dominant one (unless they actually claim/label it as a blend). Same as any other yeast sample they would get. Kviek even in original form, generally isn't phenolic. But it might be tart and/or more complex then just "Orange Juice" or what not in it's original multi strain form. That extra complexity is probably a very good thing when you aren't using a bunch of hops.

And again you can make pretty much non-phenolic beer with some Belgian and Saison strains as well if you ferment at the right temperatures/pitch rates and wort conditions. I could make something with one and give it to you and unless you were actually allergic to phenols in the smallest amount (IE they give some people migraines) you probably wouldn't know there was a Saison or Belgian yeast unless I told you.

It's just that most don't know how to do that right. Often just because they use the wrong yeast because it's the most popular/commonly found in strong ale kits, and then decide they all suck. IE they will use Chimay strain (WLP500) and either get a dirt/clove bomb, or a banana bomb, or a mellower mix of the two, because that's what that yeast does across it's temperature range.

But other Belgian strains at the right temperatures especially in a lower gravity beer would make apple/pears/stone fruit and tropical like flavors and very little phenols... You can make something super citrusy with Bella Saison at low temps, etc. There are even wheat beer strains that can give you the apples/pears and very little phenols at high temps and proper pitch rates. When I say I prefer Westmalle strain or Abbaye yeast or Duval strains or the like for most Belgians vs. WLP500, and really actually don't like WLP500 very much at all except for in very strong beers, this is the kind of versatility I'm talking about.

And English strains too, many of them will give you wonderful plums and stone fruit and the like when fermented warm. But Americans are stupid when they use English yeasts, like all yeasts (except Kviek these days), IE they ferment with the at the very bottom of the temperature range to "keep it clean". Because... they don't know how to make Real Ale. Only 'Merican ale.

[Beer-lord]

To continue a bit on this topic as I plan using this or similar yeast in a week or so, I found some helpful info here:
http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html
and here
http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/far ... kveik.html

Ron, I know you weren't very impressed and I've read some similar things from others in using this yeast with certain styles of beer. Many seem to like this in a pilsner. It seems if you try to get fancy with the hops, you lose the yeast character altogether and muddy the water. So, I may stick to some C hops at flameout only and dry hop or nothing sooner than the last 10 minutes. I think I read that Azacca is a good match but am thinking about El Dorado, Galaxy, Vic Secret, maybe a Neo Mex hop.
Also, did you mention your pitch rate? It seems that greatly underpitching and fermenting temp is a huge maker or breaker of this yeast.
Crap, I've now read so much about it I need to start over!

[Kealia]

I pitched the whole packet into a 5G batch. Next time I will use 1-2 tablespoons, based on what I've read.
I'm not writing it off yet. I blame my recipe, not the yeast.

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[Beer-lord]

I read this comment on someone's blog:

For Hornidal specifically, I'd pitch normal ale rates. There has been A LOT of Hornidal discussion on this forum lately with people stating that they get crappy off flavors (I was one of them) to others saying it was phenomenal.

Anecdotal evidence incoming: I pitched 1 tsp of Hornidal in 5 gallons and got a strong rubber off flavor. A month later I made a starter with whatever was left over, so basically the entire bag. It does not have the rubber flavor or taste and instead has a bright citrusy aroma.

So with that anecodtal evidence, I'd give Hornidal a BIG dose of yeast nutrient, a 1055+ OG beer, and a regular sized ale starter. You won't be disappointed if you treat Hornidal like a normal yeast strain.

I've also used a Raftevold / Simonaitis blend of Kveik and under pitched and it came out phenomenally. Bright citrus flavor, orange peel smell, best beer I've made yet. I've got a Voss on the way straight from Norway that I'm going to try the underpitch with as well. My guess is Hornidal, as a strain of Kveik, is just finnicky.

That's the 3rd time I've read someone saying to give it LOTS of yeast nutrient. Am I sick because I love this type of pain?

[Kealia]

Yes, you're getting into information overload.

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[Beer-lord]

Just a quick update for anyone following the use of Hornindal--I pitched at about 92 degrees yesterday at about noon. By 2 pm, the airlock was already working. By 5 pm, it was going full throttle. At 10:30 pm, the room it was in (utility room with no A/C or heat control) the room temp was at 96 and without a way of surety to know the exact temperature of the beer, and, the fermenter feeling VERY warm to the touch, I moved it inside overnight, checked the gravity as the airlock was dead and it was at 1.012 with a temperature of 83. There is still a small layer of krausen so it went back to the warm room for another day.
It's hard for me to grasp how this went from 1.059 to 1.102 in less than 20 hours.
It smells of over ripened fruit, specifically mango. I did a very small taste test but at 20 hours, what can you tell except that it wasn't bad. This yeast is very interesting and though it's too early to tell the final outcome, I certainly see the reason it's one of the most discussed topic to homebrewers and craft brewers alike.

[Beer-lord]

9 days after brewing (7 fermenting, 2 in the keg at high psi) and it's more than drinkable, it's just, plain good. Sure, not the complexity of some English yeasts but fermented in the mid 90's, brewed as a somewhat regular IPA but with a grain bill I think I'll use more often with different hops and yeasts, this beer tastes like it's been conditioning in the keg for 3-4 weeks.
I've heard I can expect the taste to really change all over the place for the next few weeks but, I will definitely use this yeast again. Maybe try in the upper 60's to see what it does as well.
I also am glad I OCD'd on info because the continued advice to use C hops and Amarillo and Simcoe really paid off. But then again, those are good hops for any IPA.

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[Kealia]

Sweet! That's great that it worked out for you. Don't take the "it will change bias" into drinking this, but let us know if it does in fact change over time.

[Beer-lord]

Agreed. But there is no 'green beer' at this very early stage. And, I wonder if maybe some kegged too soon and it kept fermenting. So, you are correct and YMMV.

[mashani]

The actual flavors the Kviek yeast make itself have always been stable for me in the actual Kviek like/style beers I've made (not highly hopped), but I left them all in the fermenter for a 10 days at least just because that's what I do to avoid acetaldehyde since I'm a super taster and Kviek or not, I don't trust anything that hasn't sat on the yeast cake for at least a week post fermentation to not give me the flavor and the accompanying headaches. Acetaldehyde is quite frankly not good for you, and the more of it the yeast removes the less my liver needs to. I would very much rather prefer the yeast removes as much of it as possible and leaving it sit on the cake for a while is the best way to make it happen because it acts as a reserve fuel source for the yeast once they use up all the other stuff.

If it was a NE style IPA which seems to be the most common thing people around here are making with Kviek, it's probably that yes they bottled too soon or else that they never had a beer with that much late added hops that fresh/soon after fermentation ever before, because the reason they are using Kviek is to "get it done and into the keg in 3 days without messing with their 'Merican IPA only sensibilities" so there is little or no oxidation or other changes that occurred to the hop oils at all yet, where a week or two later that is gonna change dramatically unless they did a completely O2 free transfer.

[Beer-lord]

Pitched yeast on a pale ale with Omega Hornindal at 1 pm yesterday and less than 30 hours later it hit FG. Unlike last time when I fermented in the high 90's, this started at 85 and got to 95 before it finished. Gonna wait another day before I child down to 60 to dry hop for 3 days then cold crash for 2 days and keg. I'm in no rush as I have lots of homebrew. Smells like a fruit smorgasbord!