Mash and Boil for 250.00

[berryman]

Hello Borg! I hope everyone is healthy and that we all get through this Covid madness intact.
My wife and I have been holed up in the house for 3 weeks now. I haven’t brewed in months but I’m going to dust off the M and B and brew a 5 gallon batch of Two Hearted Ale.

Hello Banjo, good to hear from you. I can't answer your question as I have only done one full volume mash and that was 3 gal. I do the thicker mash and sparge. I have done 17lbs grain bill in the M&B but with.35 water. Mashani is the expert here on full volume and if he sees this will help to answer. Post on the results. and take care.

[mashani]

I've done 13, and survived the process. But the water was like 1/2 inch from the top.

If you are going for a 5 gallon batch with a 60 minute boil, I think you can just barely do 13.5. That would be something like a 6.35 gallons of water and 7.45 gallons of total mash volume. It will be water *all the way to the top*. It will be sketchy. That is like about the max you could possibly do. You will need to break up the dough balls before you add the final bit of water and you will not be able to stir your mash once you put the rest in, it just will be impossible.

If you are willing to tip the mash & boil to get some of the 0.5 gallons of trub/deadspace into your fermenter, you could reduce that amount of water by maybe 0.25 gallons and still get 5. How much of that 0.5 gallons is not hop sludge and such depends on if you go commando with the hops, so I can't say how much you can actually get by tilting before it turns to actual kettle trub vs. wort.

If you are willing to short boil it (IE 45 minute boil) you could shave off another 0.125 gallons, or even 0.25 gallons if you were willing to do a 30 minute boil.

Another option is to short it by one gallon of volume, and then just pour a gallon of water into the basket right after you pull it and it drains below the grain bed to make up for it and not worry about the fact that it's not a "slow and proper" way to sparge for maximum efficiency. As a BIAB brewer we are not going for maximum efficiency anyways, so whatever. (at least that is how I justify doing it the fast and lazy way to my own brain when I do that sort of thing). Doing that isn't going to add very much time, it will just drain like whatever else is in the basket. This is actually what I would do if I was to do that again. That way I could stir the mash and not worry about it.

Lots of ways to "make it work", it's up to you which one is ok for you and how dangerous you want to live.

[bpgreen]

Hello Borg! I hope everyone is healthy and that we all get through this Covid madness intact.
My wife and I have been holed up in the house for 3 weeks now. I haven’t brewed in months but I’m going to dust off the M and B and brew a 5 gallon batch of Two Hearted Ale.
I also posted on the Facebook book page for advice about brewing a 5 gallon batch in the MB. I’m hoping you guys can see this old thread and give me some advice.
The grain bill is 13.5 lbs. Can I skip the sparge and do a full volume biab brew? I’ve never sparged in 6 years of brewing. I am a biab brewer.
I want to brew this tomorrow if possible.
I’m really out of shape with brewing because I’ve using the Zymatic prior to my break from brewing.
I have to figure out mash dough-in volume and temps and possible sparge water volume and treatment if I have to sparge.

I missed your Facebook post.

I've had poor results with big grain bills. But I've also had poor efficency in general.

I'm going to try making half the grains, draining, then doing ther other half.

I don't think there's any reason to do a sparge. But you're limited in volume with the mash and boil.

[Banjo-guy]

I've done 13, and survived the process. But the water was like 1/2 inch from the top.

If you are going for a 5 gallon batch with a 60 minute boil, I think you can just barely do 13.5. That would be something like a 6.35 gallons of water and 7.45 gallons of total mash volume. It will be water *all the way to the top*. It will be sketchy. That is like about the max you could possibly do. You will need to break up the dough balls before you add the final bit of water and you will not be able to stir your mash once you put the rest in, it just will be impossible.

If you are willing to tip the mash & boil to get some of the 0.5 gallons of trub/deadspace into your fermenter, you could reduce that amount of water by maybe 0.25 gallons and still get 5. How much of that 0.5 gallons is not hop sludge and such depends on if you go commando with the hops, so I can't say how much you can actually get by tilting before it turns to actual kettle trub vs. wort.

If you are willing to short boil it (IE 45 minute boil) you could shave off another 0.125 gallons, or even 0.25 gallons if you were willing to do a 30 minute boil.

Another option is to short it by one gallon of volume, and then just pour a gallon of water into the basket right after you pull it and it drains below the grain bed to make up for it and not worry about the fact that it's not a "slow and proper" way to sparge for maximum efficiency. As a BIAB brewer we are not going for maximum efficiency anyways, so whatever. (at least that is how I justify doing it the fast and lazy way to my own brain when I do that sort of thing). Doing that isn't going to add very much time, it will just drain like whatever else is in the basket. This is actually what I would do if I was to do that again. That way I could stir the mash and not worry about it.

Lots of ways to "make it work", it's up to you which one is ok for you and how dangerous you want to live.

I think I should do a mash and sparge. I've never brewed that way and I'm unsure of how to do the mash and sparge.

The MB manual shows these volume calculations:
Mash strike water grain wt x .3 or 13.5 x .3 = 4.05
Sparge water mash water x .75. or 4.05 x .75= 3.0375
Basically 4 gallons to mash and 3 gallons to sparge.
Total water 7 gallons.

The kit directions from Bells give:
Mash 4.25
Sparge 4.5
Total water 8.75

Beersmith ( with the MB equipment profile ) gives this recipe with single infusion medium body mash with sparge and mash out:
Mash 4.22
Strike with 2 steps ( 0.52 gal,, 3.11 gal) of 168.0 water
Total water 7.85

It seems like I should go with Beersmith's numbers.

How do I treat the mash and sparge water? Do brewers normally adjust the two differently? I need to bring the ph down and will need to add lactic acid.
Bells gives a water profile for Kalazoo,
Ca 120
Mg 32
Na 36
Cl 117
So4-2 40
alkalinity 286
ph. 7.72

They don't say if they treat the water or use it as is. Interestingly the Chloride to Sulfate ratio is more like an NEIPA than an old school IPA.

[berryman]

I think I should do a mash and sparge. I've never brewed that way and I'm unsure of how to do the mash and sparge.

The MB manual shows these volume calculations:
Mash strike water grain wt x .3 or 13.5 x .3 = 4.05
Sparge water mash water x .75. or 4.05 x .75= 3.0375
Basically 4 gallons to mash and 3 gallons to sparge.
Total water 7 gallons.

Them are the numbers I used when first got my unit, but now use .35 mostly and sometimes close to .40.
It makes a easier mash to stir and less sparging. That would put you around 5 Gal.

[Banjo-guy]

I think I should do a mash and sparge. I've never brewed that way and I'm unsure of how to do the mash and sparge.

The MB manual shows these volume calculations:
Mash strike water grain wt x .3 or 13.5 x .3 = 4.05
Sparge water mash water x .75. or 4.05 x .75= 3.0375
Basically 4 gallons to mash and 3 gallons to sparge.
Total water 7 gallons.

Them are the numbers I used when first got my unit, but now use .35 mostly and sometimes close to .40.
It makes a easier mash to stir and less sparging. That would put you around 5 Gal.

I know I’m acting like a total newbie but is it true that whatever strike water you use you just need to compensate at the sparge to hit the pre boil volume that works for your system.
In the MB case we have .50 gal boil off plus
.50 below the valve.
So we’re losing a gallon and should bring in the sparge to 6 gallons in the MB
Am I thinking correct?

[berryman]

I sparge to 6.5 for a 60 min boil, leave the sludge under the spigot and put close to 5.25-5.5 in my fementer and loose a little there but get a whole 5 gal in the keg and just about enough left for a FG reading. I don't use a hop spider but using a lot of whole hops will boil with the grain tube in because will get a stuck spigot. I should also add I have used rice hulls since my third batch with this unit.

[mashani]

I know I’m acting like a total newbie but is it true that whatever strike water you use you just need to compensate at the sparge to hit the pre boil volume that works for your system.
In the MB case we have .50 gal boil off plus
.50 below the valve.
So we’re losing a gallon and should bring in the sparge to 6 gallons in the MB
Am I thinking correct?

If you want 5 gallons out without tipping it then you need to sparge it up to 6 gallons of volume with a 0.5 gallon per hour boil off rate. (other 0.5 gallon is below the spigot). Note that if you were to try to do it BIAB without a sparge and not doing any of the optional things I threw out, this is all your going to get out, because your maxing it...

Like Berryman said, sparge it up to 6.5 gallons if you want to get a bit more then 5 gallons out, IE if you want 5.25 or 5.5 into your fermenter so you actually get a full 5+ gallons of beer out after trub and such.

Just treat your sparge water exactly like you would for your mash water. If you normally treat your mash water in bulk, treat just as much as you would normally use for BIAB full volume, use some of it for the mash, and then reserve the sparge amount. You treat your water for PH just like you would normally (including the sparge water), so if your used to doing it in bulk somehow for BIAB, just do it the same exact way, and then RDWHAHB, you will make beer.

[berryman]

I consider my way of brewing between BIAB and a mash tun. Yes sparge can add close to another hour on brewtime, but I think it is worth it. Maybe not as fast but seems to be a happy medium on the M&B. I do the best around 10-13lbs of grain and in the 1.054-1.060 range but have done more. Don't be scared on a sparge it really easy. I use 167 water, but a lot are sparging with room temp water and report good results.

[Banjo-guy]

Thanks! I think I’m ready for Monday’s brew.
I’m using a kit with it’s pretty existing recipe.
I’m just hoping to get close to the numbers in the recipe,

[berryman]

Thanks! I think I’m ready for Monday’s brew.
I’m using a kit with it’s pretty existing recipe.
I’m just hoping to get close to the numbers in the recipe,

What is the projected OG on this? 13.5 bill should put you in the 1.060 range.

[Banjo-guy]

Thanks! I think I’m ready for Monday’s brew.
I’m using a kit with it’s pretty existing recipe.
I’m just hoping to get close to the numbers in the recipe,

What is the projected OG on this? 13.5 bill should put you in the 1.060 range.

The OG target is 1.065

[mashani]

The OG target is 1.065

Even if you don't hit it, it's still going to be good beer. Worst case if you go low, it will just seem a bit more like a West Coast IPA vs. a Midwest style and still be delicious.

[bpgreen]

Waking this thread up.

I love[/] the Mash and Boil.

I started brewing in 2009, but for a variety of reasons (mostly ridiculously cheap bulk LME from my LHBS), I didn't go to all gran until I got the mash and boil.

I started a mash a couple of hours ago . I've also set it to be ready for a mash when I wake up, but why not do an overnight mash and get a little more ABV?

When I get up in the morning, I'll raise the temperature to mashout while I'm making and eating breaakfast. Then I'll set it to boil . I've got timers set for each hop addition.

It's not fullly automated, but it's hands off enough that I've gone all grain.

[Beer-lord]

It obviously works well for you. I too am enjoying E-brewing. It seems a bit simpler but still enough hands on to feel like you are the master.