Amarillo Delta Rye Pale Ale

[mashani]

I'm brewing today, want to try this. But I don't have any Notty, thinking of S04. I could use US-05, if I keep it in the kitchen, or possibly the top of the steps. Basement is too cool. I have no Honey Malt, nor Brumalt. Substitute? I can use various crystals, or melanoidin.

No Delta, either. Fuggles+Cascade?

Hmm... old thread resurrection

S-04 doesn't like it as cold as Notty. It doesn't like it any colder then S-05. If your worried about S-05 temps you should worry about S-04 temps.

S-04 will floc out harder and give you a clearer beer. But it will take some of the hop flavor/aroma out with it too compared to S-05. And it's not as clean nor will it attenuate as much as Notty. So if using S-04 I'd add a bit more hops. I might add more hops if using S-05 too. Notty ferments out a bit drier then either. Or maybe just replace a bit of the malt with say 3-4oz of sugar to dry it out a bit more. Or lower your mash temps a tad. Lots of options there.

I think a mix of around 2/3rds Fuggles and 1/3rd Cascade can substitute for the Delta hops. (that's just a guess, but the Delta is more like fuggles then cascade, but it is a bit like both).

Do you have any Centennial? Try some of that in place of the Amarillo. Neither Cascade or Centennial is a direct substitute, Amarillo has this "juicy" character that is different then grapefruit that they don't have... but I think the Centennial is more floral and a bit closer perhaps.

Honey malt... hmm... I'd say to use a 50/50 mix of the melanoidin and the lightest crystal you have as a sub.

These days if I was doing the hopstand with the lid on for a small batch, I'd just start it at @flameout temps, and then keep the lid on when cooling in my sink/ice bath, so the blown off hop oils re-condense back into the wort instead of bothering to start at a lower temp. That would have the affect of bumping up the bitterness a little bit, but still give you all the same flavor/aroma, which I think would not necessarily be a bad thing for this beer. But if leaving the lid off, then it is important to start at a lower temp though. I only do hop stands with the lid off and use my chiller for bigger batches these days, due to my house brett.

EDIT: Another good option based on how my Fuggles + Mosiac ESB came out would be that combo. It won't be the same as the Delta + Amarillo, but it would be very tasty.

So that's how I'd frankenbier my own beer I guess. Now I want to make this again, and I don't have any of the hops either.

[John Sand]

Thanks Mash. Here's what I've done: I did sub the Melanoidin for Honey Malt. I also mixed some C15 with the C20, as I was low. I decided to go with Cluster in place of Delta, as I have some and like it. I do have Amarillo, and used it. I adjusted the IBUs for AA in Brewer's Friend. I think I'll go with the 05, as I had the same thought about losing hop flavor.
I have had success with 04 at cool temps, and once split a batch between Notty and 05. The 05 finished a little lower, and slightly hoppier, but they were very similar.
Thanks again, I'll let you know how this one goes.

[John Sand]

Kegged this yesterday, the sample tasted great. I managed the temperature by moving it around the house, covered in a black nylon bag. Mine went 1.056-1.014, but I fell short of five gallons.

[mashani]

Kegged this yesterday, the sample tasted great.

Hurray! I remember this being really yummy.

[John Sand]

I served this today at Easter dinner, it was a hit. My wife does not like it, so I was a bit worried. But my son and our friend's son in law loved it.

[mashani]

What doesn't she like out of curiosity? The rye spicy, or does she think it tastes/smells of cat pee (some folks think of Cluster like that)? Or something else? Just curious. Depending on what it is, it might be able to be worked around.

Glad everyone else enjoyed it. I'd certainly enjoy it.

[bpgreen]

What doesn't she like out of curiosity? The rye spicy, or does she think it tastes/smells of cat pee (some folks think of Cluster like that)?

Not just cluster. Any hop that has black currant in the description.

I learned this the hard way.

[mashani]

My X thinks Simcoe and Cluster = Cat Pee. But she doesn't think Streisselspalt or Armais (a Streisselspalt descendant) = Cat Pee. I like all of them, so?

[John Sand]

She says it tastes and smells sour. I don't taste that, nor did the guys. I get mild rye spice, and fruity hops, with slight sweetness in the middle. It's orange/gold in color, nice white head, perfectly clear now. The guys didn't review it, they just drank it and commented how good it was. They chose it over Sam Adams, Guinness, and a very successful Irish Red.

[mashani]

It sounds like it competes with good company then.

The "sour" she is describing might be the cat pee thing. If you made it with fuggles + cascade or the original delta instead of the cluster then maybe she would like it if so. I've never heard of anyone describe rye as "sour".

[John Sand]

I'm a bit puzzled too. She generally has a good pallet. But I'm glad the guys reinforced my approval.

[mashani]

I don't think the cat pee thing is a good or bad pallet issue. Some people just are super sensitive to whatever compound that is, where other people don't notice it at all. For the ones who notice it, it is apparently pretty awful. Sort of like how some people think cilantro = soap.

[Kealia]

G'ah, I don't like cilantro much but don't think it tastes like soap.

I agree with mashani's comment. I know Inkleg doesn't care for Citra at all but he's got a pretty good taster. Me, I don't care much for English hops <ducks>.

[John Sand]

I understand the difference about sensitivity to flavors vs a good pallet. I was just concerned because she is so discerning. And I don't mind drinking the rest of it!

[mashani]

Me, I don't care much for English hops <ducks>.