Poland Spring Water Additions

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:28 pm

I'm going to my son's house tomorrow to show him how to BIAB. He has well water and has never had a water report. To help him get a good first brew I am planning on using Poland Springs water. Its a 2.5 gallon batch and I will need 4.5 gallons of water. We are brewing an IPA.

I ran the water adjustment tool in Beersmith and am surprised about how large the adjustments are. Here is what I came up with to hit Tasty's Hoppy Water Profile.
Gypsum 6.9 g
Calcium Chloride 1.6
Epsom Salt 3.0 g
Baking Soda .7 g

Do these amounts look reasonable?

Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:10 am

What kind of profile does the spring water have? If it is distilled you work from zero, spring water still does have a lot of the elements in it.

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:56 am

The Poland spring water profile ( according to Beersmith ) is
:
Calcium 5.3
Magnesium .9
Sodium 2.1
Chloride 5.3
Bicarbonate 14 ppm
Sulfate 3.2.

I'm thinking of using distilled water and building it up. I've never done that.
I usually add 3 grams of Gypsum to my tap water and call it a day.

I'm just surprised by the amount of additions needed to adjust Poland Spring.
The distilled water additions would be:
Gypsum 6.8 g
Epsom Salt 3.3 g
Calcium Chloride 1.8 g
Baking Soda .9 g
Chalk .2 g

This addions are generated from the Beersmith Water profile tool based on my recipe for an IPA.

Maris Otter. 82.4%. 4.5 lbs
C10. 8.2 %. 6.4 oz
C40. 2.1. %. 1.8 oz
Munich. 8.2 %. 8.2 oz

4.5 gallons water total.
Boil 4.1 gal
Post boil 2.9 gal.

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Post by **BlackDuck** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:39 am

It's kind of hard to answer your question of whether or not these additions look normal....can you give us the final water profile your shooting for. That will help tremendously.

Also, do some research on adding chalk. From what I've read, chalk does not easily dissolve in water. You can read this and this for more information on dissolving chalk in water.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:57 am

Oh....and one other comment on using the BeerSmith water profile tool. Unless I'm missing something, you can't add the grain for your recipe into the BeerSmith calculator. And it doesn't have an area to make pH adjustments by using lactic acid or acidulated malt. If there is a way to do these, someone please school me on that. Adding the grain into the calculator is important as different types of grain will add different materials into the mash and sparge water. I use EZ Water Calculator, which allows me to add in the type and amounts of grain that I'm using in the recipe. It also allows for pH adjustments.

I will say this though...I tested BeerSmith vs EZ Water on one of my recipes and it did come in damn close. BeerSmith told me to add 4.7 g calcium chloride and EZ Water said 5 g. However, EZ Water also told me I needed 4 mL lactic acid to get my Ph in line, where BeerSmith has no calculation for the pH adjustment.

Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:58 am

In brewers friend light colored and hoppy profile shows
Ca=75
Mg=5
Na=10
Cl=50
So=150
Bicarb=0
Your additions are coming up at
Ca=125
Mg=18.3
Na=13.3
Cl=50.6
So=297.8
Bicarb=43.7
Sodium and Chloride are ok the others are way over.
Adjusting with the following gets in line with Light and Hoppy
Gypsum 3.5 g
Epsom salt 1.5 g
Calcium Chloride 1.5 g
Baking soda 1 g
Ca=77.1
Mg=9.6
Na=18.2
Cl=47.8
So=152.2
Bicarb=56.4 Which can be brought down by 2 ml Lactic Acid
Bicarb w/lactic acid=0.45 and mash Ph predicted to be 5.28

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:47 pm

BlackDuck- The water I thought I would try is Tasty's Hoppy Water.
Doesn't BeerSmith factor in the recipe's malts when running the water adjustment tool? If it doesn't it isn't very useful in my opinion.
I'm not going to use chalk.

Steve- Are the additions that you gave for Poland Spring water or distilled? I listed two adjustments. I assume you are referring to Poland Spring since my topic heading is about Poland Spring.

I stopped by a LHBS near my son's house. They suggested that I just brew with his well water unless it tastes and smells off. He suggested that we could add a little gypsum. He thought we should give a shot with his unadjusted water to see how it turns out.

My son called tonight to say that one of his water pipes has frozen. I might be helping him deal with a frozen water pipe instead of brewing tomorrow. I hope we get to brew.

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Post by **BlackDuck** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:05 pm

I'll have to find the Tasty's Hoppy Profile, I haven't seen that one before.

I don't think BeerSmith takes the grain bill into account. If it does, I'm missing it. When I open up the water profile tool, it looks like it opens up a new window, and it runs independent of the recipe. I agree, if it doesn't link to the recipe, it's kind of useless, and that's why I use EZ Water.

You can surely use your well water. But, I'll add this. I used my tap water for quite some time and thought I was making pretty good beer. Then I started entering competitions. I was consistently getting comments from the judges that the beer was harsh and astringent. Then I had my water tested and found that my water was terrible for making beer, so I started adjusting my water. And wow, were the results noticeable. What I thought was good beer, all of a sudden became really good beer. And it also resulted in a silver metal in the American Pale Ale category. So...in a nutshell, even though the well water might make good beer, you might be able to make really good beer starting from the spring water and adjusting it to hit a profile.

Hope the frozen pipe situation thaws itself out!!!!

And the pipe doesn't burst, and you get to brew.

Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:19 am

Dawg LB Steve wrote: Adjusting with the following gets in line with Light and Hoppy
Gypsum 3.5 g
Epsom salt 1.5 g
Calcium Chloride 1.5 g
Baking soda 1 g
Ca=77.1
Mg=9.6
Na=18.2
Cl=47.8
So=152.2
Bicarb=56.4 Which can be brought down by 2 ml Lactic Acid
Bicarb w/lactic acid=0.45 and mash Ph predicted to be 5.28

These adjustments using Brewers Friend calculator and picking Light colored and Hoppy for the finished water profile, are additions using the Poland Springs starting profile and the grain bill you posted.

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:25 am

Thanks for running those numbers for me. I'll use those if we get to brew today. The only thing I don't trust is the water report that Beersmith has for Poland Spring Water. The numbers on their site gives them in a range.
They probably vary from batch to batch.

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Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:00 am

I had a great first brew day with my son. It's really rewarding to share this hobby with him. He has a gas stove and we were able to get a gentle boil going for the 4.25 gallon boil.

He wanted to use untreated well water to see how it would turn out. It tasted like mineral water to me. The wort had sweet slightly hoppy taste so maybe the final product will be ok. It doesn't matter that much. Today was all about hanging out with him and teaching what I know so that he can start brewing on his own.

Thanks for your help! ( even though I ended up not treating the water)

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John Sand · Post by **John Sand** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:50 am

Hey Banjo. Nice story. I would love it if one of my boys was interested in brewing. My son in law might be, though I'm not sure my daughter would forgive me if I got him started!

Post by **BlackDuck** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:26 am

Awesome Banjo....sounds like you and your son had a great day together.

ScrewyBrewer · Post by **ScrewyBrewer** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:25 am

My sons love drinking beer but find the brewing process too complicated and lengthy, so I brew alone these days.