Cherry wheat problems

[FedoraDave]

Not problems, exactly. Here's the background.

I bought 2.25 pounds of fresh cherries with the intention of using them in a beer. I came up with a mild wheat beer recipe (for a 2.5 gallon batch, 1.75# two row, 1.75# wheat, 0.5# 20L, 0.5 Oz. Tettnang for 60 minutes). I removed the pits from the cherries, sealed them in a vacuum-sealed bag, and boiled them for ten minutes to kill any bad things that might infect the beer. I pureed them and added them to the beer after primary fermentation was done.

Now I'm drinking it, and it's a little weak, which could be beefed up with changes to the malt bill. But the cherry influence isn't really there, and there's even a sort of sour taste. That could be attributed to the cherries themselves or to the fact that more fermentation occurred with the addition of the cherries, and with some of that fructose being fermented, the flavor was altered.

Thoughts? Advice?

[bpgreen]

I'm not big on fruit beers, so I've never made one, but from what I've read, it helps if you add the fruit later in the fermention.

That malt bill seems pretty small to me, wich may account for the weak comment you made.

[Kealia]

From what I know, if you're going to boil (cook) them, you want sour cherries to start with as they turn sweet when cooked.
If you start with sweet cherries they tend to lose their flavor when cooked.

I'll happily defer to somebody with more fruit knowledge, though.

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[mashani]

All I can add is that I've had good success with the tart cherry candy syrup that MoreBeer sells in similar beers. It doesn't leave a strong cherry flavor when using 1# in a 5 gallon batch, but the flavor is there just more in the background and that's where I personally want it - and it's not tart/sour unless you brew your beer that way. That syrup contains cherry pits too and not just cooked cherries which add to the flavor complexity somehow. The flavor does increase if you use more obviously, but so does your ABV, and unless you are brewing a big Belgian or imperial stout the best way to use it would be to mash at a more medium/full body range, because the candi syrup s going to kick up the ABV and dry out the beer as if it wasn't.

I would think that it's likely best to brew any sort of fruit beer where you want to fruit to tastes LIKE the fruit at a more medium-high mash temperature anyways, because fruit is sugar + flavor, all the sugar is going to ferment out so just like the syrup it's going to thin/dry out the beer (compared to what the OG would be in an all malt beer if you included the extra sugars in the OG) and the flavor will certainly not be the same without some residual sweetness left by something else. It's why maple syrup tastes like watered down WOOD if you just add it to something that ferments out really dry like a Belgian/Saison. It's why molassas makes beer tastes like you fermented it in a rusty iron bucket if you do the same with it. Where in a more full bodied beer you might get a better result.

A lot of people just ending up using fruit extracts and adding it later to get the flavor they want. It's just easier for many people to get what they want that way.

[RickBeer]

I agree that you want to use tart cherries, not sweet.

Sam Adams Cherry Wheat is made with Michigan tart cherries. It has a very noticeable cherry flavor.

Yes, adding flavor extract makes it better for most flavors, you need to ensure you use the right flavoring though. Cherry for LorAnn to me tastes like Luden's Cough Drops. Their Apricot is very good. Peanut Butter also, and more.

[HerbMeowing]

On 1st read .... I thought the fruit addition was on the light side based on what I recalled while researching my raspberry recipe.

From BeerSmith ...
"Ripe, sour cherries are best as they blend well with the malt flavors. Generally a lot of cherry is needed, as much as 2-4 lbs per gallon of beer, which is why many cherry based Belgian beers are expensive. Also, cherry beers sometimes need extensive aging."

More ...
http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/04/02/br ... rt-1-of-2/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/04/11/br ... rt-2-of-2/

My wheat-to-barley ratio is 3-to-2.
I throw in a little C60 + a dash of roasted barley to get a rich ... red color.

[FedoraDave]

Good information, everyone. Thanks.

I've used cherry extract in the past, and wasn't completely thrilled with it, but then, I'm not completely thrilled with this beer, either. But as a first attempt, and after reading this thread, I've got more to go on.